Eli Lilly weight loss drug beats Ozempic in head-to-head study

Keto and Paleo diets are usually pushed by the same types who fall for the conspiracy theories etc.

Oh, you mean they are less likely to blindly follow mainstream narratives?

A friend did the Paleo diet and despite his doctor telling him it was his diet causing repeating kidney stones, he refused to believe it. What a tit.

Well, according to kidney.org

"Possible causes [of kidney stones] include drinking too little water, exercise (too much or too little), obesity, weight loss surgery, or eating food with too much salt or sugar. Infections and family history might be important in some people. Eating too much fructose correlates with increasing risk of developing a kidney stone."

So assuming the story is true and that he is your friend, you should tell him to switch from paleo to keto, or better yet to carnivore...

A friend did the Paleo diet and despite his doctor telling him it was his diet causing repeating kidney stones, he refused to believe it. What a tit.

LOL, sounds like he has the IQ of a gnat.

I bet he is an anti-vaxxer too!

Keto and Paleo diets are usually pushed by the same types who fall for the conspiracy theories etc.

Despite evidence to the contrary, they drone about in the same tedious way as everything else.

A friend did the Paleo diet and despite his doctor telling him it was his diet causing repeating kidney stones, he refused to believe it. What a tit.

Nothing disputes the medical experts advice that following a healthy diet and exercising is the best way to maintain weight, and without those risks associated with the weight loss drugs.

What you dispute is that the drugs reduce the risks for patients that have high probability of failing the lifestyle changes, when you claim the FDA failed its purpose by approving the drugs you claim are unnecessary you are disputing the medical experts advice.

Then again you have never produced any evidence of this actually happening. No expert saying it is better or less risky letting patients fail and remain obese than using these drugs, so your claims remain disproved.

Nothing disputes the medical experts advice that following a healthy diet and exercising is the best way to maintain weight, and without those risks associated with the weight loss drugs.

kiwiboy,

I'm enjoying reading your perspective, especially this point: "You could struggle for years trying to succeed at all the normal diets and end up failing, or take the medicine and succeed." I think that's a point a lot of people, including me, miss. Although these drugs could be perceived as a quick- fix, or an easy way out, there are a myriad of reasons why the traditional 'diet and exercise' model might not work for individuals.

Good luck with it.

Hmmm, nice graphics, but it looks like a whole bunch of hypothetical ideas based on associations and assumptions but with little actual evidence

The articles included offer plenty of evidence, not acknowledging the data does nothing to disprove it. It only makes it clear you could not refute any of it and so your exit is to pretend it is not there, even when the article has been clearly peer reviewed, published and even referenced. Either the scientific community is wrong or you are, no mystery where is the mistake.

The author concludes that consuming meat increases inflammation and cardiovascular disease. But what we observe in people who follow the carnivore diet is the complete opposite.

No, we don't, that is a claim you have failed repeatedly to support with evidence, meanwhile the articles included in the review clearly disprove that claim with objective, validated data.

One thing the author wrote which I agree with is the following:

You mean you didn't know that terribly unbalanced diets are bad for your health even when mixed? that would betray a huge lack of knowledge about the field you want to impose your personal opinion. The carnivore diet is much worse than more balanced diets used to lose weight, lowering your standards of comparison to say it is better than bad diets only helps demonstrating that you now it can only compare poorly with diets that are actually healthy.

This is for example a very clear review of evidence of the extra health risks associated with the carnivore diet, what criticism do you have about the data used, the methodologies or the conclusions of this report?

https://www.mdpi.com/2308-3425/10/7/282

Hmmm, nice graphics, but it looks like a whole bunch of hypothetical ideas based on associations and assumptions but with little actual evidence. I don't have time read it all, but with a quick scan I found a bunch of debunked stuff (e.g., Okinawans consuming very little meat).

The author concludes that consuming meat increases inflammation and cardiovascular disease. But what we observe in people who follow the carnivore diet is the complete opposite.

One thing the author wrote which I agree with is the following:

"It is interesting to note that a number of clinical trials which have utilized animal-product-rich diets (low-carbohydrate, high-protein or high-fat diets) in comparison to more mixed diets that are higher in carbohydrate and lower in fat demonstrate benefit in CVD risk factors, despite inherently reduced plant food consumption and increased saturated fat intake [39]."

Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Over 4 years I lost 11 kg without using drugs. My target is 4 more. Diet and exercise did it.

No, not based on the scientific literature, but rather on their funders.

Without evidence this is not an argument, is just an excuse for not having an argument. I gave a very clear example of scientific literature that clearly proves the point, against which you could not make even one argument. That means you accept the conclusions are based on clear scientific literature, even if you are not willing to accept it because of a personal antiscientific bias.

How else would you explain that "respected" institutions of medical science fire their experienced dieticians if they refuse to promote products (e.g. artificial sweeteners) produced by companies that provide considerable funds to the institution.

Every respected institution in the world? in every country? that is false and again just an excuse to avoid accepting the medical consensus. Dieticians are not even the only specialists in the topic, and cardiologists, endocrinologists, etc. are also part of the consensus that say the carnivore diet is much worse than the best options available.

Shawn Baker's license was taken because of proven incompetence, something that he could refute by presenting the evidence examined by the medical board, but he has repeatedly refused to do it, which clearly indicates the removal is completely justified.

As a reference he is terribly inadequate since he himself characterize his recommendations as not medical advice and instead something that should be taken only for entertainment, this is something that may be related on why he was declared incompetent.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Shawn_Baker

There is no evidence of extra health risks being associated with the carnivore diet.

Of course there is, how else would you explain that respected institutions of medical science clearly conclude so based on the scientific literature?

No, not based on the scientific literature, but rather on their funders. How else would you explain that "respected" institutions of medical science fire their experienced dieticians if they refuse to promote products (e.g. artificial sweeteners) produced by companies that provide considerable funds to the institution. Or fire surgeons (e.g. Shawn Baker) who instead of automatically recommending surgery to their patients, they suggest first considering dietary changes.

This is for example a very clear review of evidence of the extra health risks associated with the carnivore diet, what criticism do you have about the data used, the methodologies or the conclusions of this report?

https://www.mdpi.com/2308-3425/10/7/282

Yeah, finding stuff when you're out can be challenging. But there is no reason why one would need to eat 3 meals per day. Two or even one meal per day can be beneficial, and is easier to do on a carnivore diet.

According to the evidence it is as difficult as with any other diet, most people fail to continue a carnivore diet in the long term the same as other diets, which may be something positive seeing how this particular option comes with higher cardiac risk.

There is no evidence of extra health risks being associated with the carnivore diet.

Of course there is, how else would you explain that respected institutions of medical science clearly conclude so based on the scientific literature? I mean, it would be impossible to expect people to believe the medical community of the world is wrong just because you choose to believe something different.

Did you try carnivore? Or keto?

Yes, but it's all easier said than done. You're juggling work and life and you're at a convenient store looking for lunch. There's not much that will, at reasonable cost, fill you up and be keto or carnivore.

Yeah, finding stuff when you're out can be challenging. But there is no reason why one would need to eat 3 meals per day. Two or even one meal per day can be beneficial, and is easier to do on a carnivore diet.

Did you try carnivore? Or keto?

Why recommend unhealthy options that come with extra health risks?

There is no evidence of extra health risks being associated with the carnivore diet. But there is plenty showing that the carnivore diet reverses a range of health issues (diabetes, obesity, autoimmune, high blood pressure...).

It's enough supporting all the big Pharma companies. There is no easy way to lose weight . the first step is to stop eating donuts every day, after you go through your withdrawals everything will seem to fall in place.

Any evidence that this approach is effective? How do you explain that countries still have big public health problems because of obesity when according to you the solution is so obvious and easy to implement?

It's enough supporting all the big Pharma companies. There is no easy way to lose weight . the first step is to stop eating donuts every day, after you go through your withdrawals everything will seem to fall in place.

Did you try carnivore? Or keto?

Why recommend unhealthy options that come with extra health risks? There is a reason why the medical consensus is that both of your recommendations are much less beneficial than what the experts say is a healthy weight reduction diet.

Of course, watching one's diet and exercising to lose weight comes without those risks these drugs come with, according to the medical experts of the world, and even the agency the WHO.

But for patients that repeatedly fail this is why the drugs represent a much lower risk than not using them, that is why the experts of the world do recommend using them for those patients. You have previously claimed the FDA failed by approving these drugs for use with the purpose of losing weight since according to you the approval was unnecessary, do you finally have any argument or evidence to prove this failure? or is it just again repeating the claim without being able to support it?

Did you try carnivore? Or keto?

Yes, but it's all easier said than done. You're juggling work and life and you're at a convenient store looking for lunch. There's not much that will, at reasonable cost, fill you up and be keto or carnivore.

One reason hollywood stars remain thin is because they have private cooks and personal trainers.

Yes, you could consider these drugs "cheating", but why not!?

You could struggle for years trying to succeed at all the normal diets and end up failing, or take the medicine and succeed. The side-effects are very rare. If you started taking the medicine and it really didn't agree with you, you can stop. Far outweighing the risks of the medicine are risks of being obese and all the health problems that come with that.

It's easy for people who've always been active and never been overweight to judge, but when you get to a point, there's no harm in getting help that works to kick-start your new lifestyle.

Does your doctor have a plan to wean you off it once you've reached your target weight, or is it a long-term thing? And does the doctor expect a bit of rebound once you're off it? And have you experienced any uncomfortable side-effects from it to date, or has it pretty much been smooth sailing?

Honestly, there's not a lot of research of people coming off them, as most people that take the medicine have diabetes and need it for life. It's going to be one of those things where self-control and discipline are important.

My friend who came off it 6 months ago said his hunger never returned to anything close to what it was before. He gained 2kg and settled there, but still about 10kg down from where he started - and he only took the medicine for 4 months.

I'm going to lower my dose next month, and then come off it at the 9 month mark.

Of course if I eat like before and don't exercise, I'll put weight back on. But I'm far more active everyday now than I was before because it's easier to move around. It's fun to go to the pool and smash out 80 laps. I can easily take the stairs instead of the escalator. I can eat a banana and yoghurt and be content.

So even if a bit of hunger returns, I'll be more active and eating healthier - which is the goal to long-term weight control anyway. It's just the medicine helped by removing the unwanted urges that make you fail, allowing me to craft my new healthy life in a few months, unlike of all the failed attempts of the past.

Each to their own of course, but if you've tried and failed many times to get weight under control, it's an option!

Studies have shown side effects like indigestion, dizziness and mildly elevated heart rate are common with GLP-1 analogs. Severe but rare events include bowel obstruction and pancreatitis.

Of course, watching one's diet and exercising to lose weight comes without those risks these drugs come with, according to the medical experts of the world, and even the agency the WHO.

Had tried every diet, had tried swimming a few times a week without any noticeable results.

Did you try carnivore? Or keto?

kiwiboyToday  09:47 am JST

I started taking Mounjaro in January. 

At 171cm, I was 95.5kg, I was very round. High blood pressure (which I was on medicine for). Felt tired all the time. Had tried every diet, had tried swimming a few times a week without any noticeable results.

After a friend did it, I started taking Mounjaro in Jan, which killed my appetite. It was liberating. Cravings for bad food were/are gone. I now eat a banana, yoghurt and a protein shake for lunch, and a light healthy meal for dinner. I go to the local pool 3-4 times a week.

The drastic weight loss (I was down 3kg after the first month, 6kg after the 2nd month and 9kg after the 3rd month) gave me the motivation to keep going with my swimming. I would look down and be surprised my stomach was so small. Or my legs so thin. Definitely a great feeling to finally see results - which motivated me to keep going to the pool.

It's July 9th now and I'm 19.7kg down since Jan 15th. My blood pressure is no longer high (I've stopped taking blood pressure medicine) and have never felt better!

The medicine isn't cheap, at about 33,000yen/month, but I save at least 20,000yen on food as I eat less - most importantly, I eat out at restaurants less.

I'm a believer in this. Not because it's a shortcut - you still need to exercise and stay healthy. But it helps by taking away the bad urges, which let you build your new healthy habits.

That's good to see you've lost a lot of weight and are adjusting your lifestyle.

Does your doctor have a plan to wean you off it once you've reached your target weight, or is it a long-term thing? And does the doctor expect a bit of rebound once you're off it? And have you experienced any uncomfortable side-effects from it to date, or has it pretty much been smooth sailing?

Everyone talking smack on America hasn't been to England I assume LOL. You got fatties and rotten teeth because of their poor food quality.

I started taking Mounjaro in January.

At 171cm, I was 95.5kg, I was very round. High blood pressure (which I was on medicine for). Felt tired all the time. Had tried every diet, had tried swimming a few times a week without any noticeable results.

After a friend did it, I started taking Mounjaro in Jan, which killed my appetite. It was liberating. Cravings for bad food were/are gone. I now eat a banana, yoghurt and a protein shake for lunch, and a light healthy meal for dinner. I go to the local pool 3-4 times a week.

The drastic weight loss (I was down 3kg after the first month, 6kg after the 2nd month and 9kg after the 3rd month) gave me the motivation to keep going with my swimming. I would look down and be surprised my stomach was so small. Or my legs so thin. Definitely a great feeling to finally see results - which motivated me to keep going to the pool.

It's July 9th now and I'm 19.7kg down since Jan 15th. My blood pressure is no longer high (I've stopped taking blood pressure medicine) and have never felt better!

The medicine isn't cheap, at about 33,000yen/month, but I save at least 20,000yen on food as I eat less - most importantly, I eat out at restaurants less.

I'm a believer in this. Not because it's a shortcut - you still need to exercise and stay healthy. But it helps by taking away the bad urges, which let you build your new healthy habits.

Big Pharma sees these things as "opportunities "

So do doctors, and scientists, every disease is an opportunity to do something to correct the damage and increase the health of the public. There is a huge difference between causing a problem and seeing merit in correcting that problem.

In this case GLP-1 analogs are a useful intervention that not only help reducing weight but also have demonstrated lower the risk of many different health problems related to metabolic discontrol, from hypertension to cancer. For those that can keep a healthy diet and excercise properly the drugs are inconsequential, but for those that have tried to change their lifestyle only to fail repeatedly these can mean success and a much longer and healthier life. Which of course would come thanks to their new ability to eat properly and excercise better.

Too many FATTIES in America.

Fatmerica...

LOOOOOOOOL

Too many FATTIES in America.

George Carlin, comic, does an excellent monologue on the death of America through the birth of THE MALL !!!

Opportunity to walk around while eating unhealthy food and buying useless , unnecessary products.

Big Pharma sees these things as "opportunities "

Enough with the burgers, the super size, the sweet drinks and everything fried.

Jamie Oliver tried to introduce some healthy eating at a school lunch offering.

Salad, vegies etc.

He was treated as if he was the Anti Christ.

America is dying burger by burger....